I have some time for the following conspiracy theories ...

JFK   1 vote - 25 %
Moon landing   0 votes - 0 %
9/11 as inside job   3 votes - 75 %
Alien contact   1 vote - 25 %
Oklahoma City Bomb   1 vote - 25 %
David Kelly   1 vote - 25 %
Posh folk are lizards   0 votes - 0 %
Roly Mo is a communist propagandist   1 vote - 25 %
None of the above   1 vote - 25 %
WIPO   1 vote - 25 %
 
4 Total Votes
Proper footie by TurboThy (4.00 / 1) #1 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:17:52 AM EST
Yes please!
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You can't fix anything, you can't change anything, so just tell them that everything is A. The Fuck OK. —Rogerborg


V for Vendetta by nebbish (4.00 / 2) #2 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:23:03 AM EST
I read the book for the first time just before going to see the film, and I really didn't think there was much difference apart from the obvious updates. Big chunks of dialogue are lifted wholesale from the book and it keeps the original spirit. I think it's a really good adaptation and seriously don't understand what people's problem with it is.

Having said that I don't think the book's one of Alan Moore's best, and find the politics in it quite immature.

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It's political correctness gone mad!


Moore's best by Breaker (4.00 / 1) #3 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:30:41 AM EST
Was the Ballad of Halo Jones.

Shame he's not going to finish the tale though.


[ Parent ]

Don't remember it that well by nebbish (4.00 / 1) #5 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:42:01 AM EST
It's been many years since I read any 2000AD. I always liked Future Shocks. Strontium Dog was great but I don't think that was Alan Moore.

My personal favourite's From Hell, which is just stunning. Now that is a shit film adaptation.

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It's political correctness gone mad!
[ Parent ]

I have issues by Breaker (4.00 / 2) #8 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 08:10:14 AM EST
~200 to about 700 stashed at my folks house.  Wonder how much they're worth these days.

Strontium Dog was Wagner IIRC.

Slaine drawn by Bisley was the best series in 2000AD, evar.


[ Parent ]

There is a lot of by yicky yacky (2.00 / 0) #7 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 08:07:52 AM EST

superficial similarity but I think therein lies a lot of its problems. One of the issues for me was that the film-makers had removed ambiguity at every possible instant. I don't think it's fair to call the politics immature as, if you look closely, there's actually very little politics in it (apart from the fundamental dichotomy of fascism versus anarchy). This ties into the ambiguity issue; the film essentially sanitized V; the book is far more non-commital over his true motivations. Sure, he spouts passages from Voltaire, Orwell, Blyton etc., but the book is careful to walk the line between asserting that's what he believes, and implying that he just says it to justify his homicidal schemes; it asks the reader to see him in a similar way to poltical stance of the insurgents in 'The Dancer Upstairs'; sure, it's more seductive and interesting than mundane procedure, but is it actually good?

One of the things I liked was that the book allowed the reader to project their own preferences and political oppositions onto V, whilst constantly working to subtly undermine the easy interpretation. The film didn't allow for this; it was "stock" -- you knew exactly who V was and what he believed, which side he was on, and his emotional resonance with Evey. The V of the book was a ruthless question mark; you couldn't fit him easily into any of the characterisations offered. That's just one example; it happened throughout the film (the domestication of Inspector Finch etc.), and that dragged the politics into an inane swamp of totalitarianism versus liberal democracy. That's not even a fight; it's a pat and settled issue.

The other thing I disliked was the way that the film undermined the nuts-and-bolts nature of the graphic novel format itself. The section where V raids the television station in the book is absolutely brilliantly constructed; the panels are designed to impart information in a deliberately drip-feeding and atmospheric way, allowing the reader to piece together what's happening for themselves. The film turns it into the lobby scene from the Matrix; no mystery, no uncertainty, just 'Tom and Jerry'. It's pretty poor.

I think Moore's done better work (Watchmen, specifically - but then I've not read "From Hell"), but I think V is subtler and more interesting than most people give it credit for.


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[ Parent ]

I think I might have to read it again by nebbish (4.00 / 1) #12 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 09:13:07 AM EST
I really didn't see it as being that ambiguous, but with it being Moore it'd more of a surprise if it's played straight. Maybe I've missed something.

Don't think it'll change my opinion on the film that much though - I've seen it twice and I do like it.

You've got to read From Hell (took me a while to get round to it as well - £25! Ouch!). Watchmen is cleverer, but From Hell just works better on other, more traditional levels like atmosphere. It's more rounded. Alan Moore's novel, Voice of the Fire, is another fave of mine.

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It's political correctness gone mad!
[ Parent ]

Well, by yicky yacky (2.00 / 0) #13 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 09:54:19 AM EST

It's always possible (maybe probable) that, as a pathological mirror state, I've over-invested the book with subtlety and the truth lies between the two positions. I might like it more if I saw it a second time; the first time I see an adaptation I tend to form a fairly negative opinion as exposition develops. When you know exactly what's there, you can usually better appraise it on its own terms.

The problem I have with "From Hell" is that I've seen the film, but not read the book, and, while I know people consider the film more of a travesty than the V film, it's kind of "not enough" to compel me to want to get the book. If I see it cheap somewhere, I might, but feel no drive to.

Incidentally: Do you know anywhere the Watchmen book can be acquired? It's over ten years since I read it, and wanted to get hold of it again before the film gets released. Three Amazon orders, two Borders orders and a Smiths one have fallen through. I suspect DC are slowly putting a choke on distribution in order to release a movie tie-in edition.


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[ Parent ]

I felt EXACTLY the same about From Hell by nebbish (4.00 / 1) #19 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 01:05:04 PM EST
Which is why it took me so long to read it as well. There's just no comparison with the film at all. The film takes the bare bones of one of the myriad plots running through the book and makes a story from that.

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It's political correctness gone mad!
[ Parent ]

Scratch that by yicky yacky (2.00 / 0) #14 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 10:12:22 AM EST

Amazon have it back in stock, it seems. What a difference three days make ...


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[ Parent ]

Good luck by nebbish (4.00 / 1) #20 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 01:06:50 PM EST
Might fall through yet. Do you ever buy second-hand from Amazon? I generally find it more reliable.

The comic shop I used to go to on Charing X Road always had it in but it's closed down now I think. I bet Forbidden Planet could get it for you.

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It's political correctness gone mad!
[ Parent ]

I'd be on for some fantasy football by jump the ladder (4.00 / 1) #4 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:31:28 AM EST
Unsuprisingly as I watched Chelsea last season :)



I really did not like V for Vendetta by cam (4.00 / 1) #6 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:52:48 AM EST
War of the Worlds ended up being one of those endless action movies (like the Island) where every three minutes is punctuated by a new action sequence and OMG will they escape this time. It lost my interest for that reason. I kind of got tired of being manipulated.

cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic


Interesting by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #9 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 08:10:48 AM EST

If anything, I got bored with a lot of the "dwelling on character" sections and was hoping something else would explode. Maybe it's because I watched it just after 'The Fantastic Four' that I found it pretty decent.


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[ Parent ]

My biggest problem with WotW by theboz (4.00 / 1) #10 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 08:31:27 AM EST
You know how during the entire movie, it looked like the aliens were destroying all human life, even going inside houses to kill people? Well, if things were that bad, then why the hell were the mom and grandparents fine in whatever city that was, with their house still standing, looking clean like they had been sitting around playing pinochle all day? Seriously, how did they and their electricity survive when the rest of the world was mostly destroyed? That was such a huge plot hole that it ruined the movie entirely.
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That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n


I know by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #11 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 08:43:53 AM EST

That was one of my favourite plot holes. I loved the, probably unintentional, implicit diss at Boston, because the only possible way of ret-conning or justifying that element is to consider that the aliens felt it was more of a priority to clear and fertilise vast areas of open farmland than it was to take care of the posh end Massachusetts ["They're not dangerous; that shit can wait until we've mopped-up these three farmers ..."].

I heard an interpretation that the final reconciliation takes place after they're dead, but it sounds like more post-hoc justification to me.


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[ Parent ]

hmmm by R343L (4.00 / 1) #24 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:30:56 PM EST
Well, I didn't really have a problem with that (although I didn't notice electricity) because that is part of the original story. The main characters must meet up with family at the end. And indeed, in all renditions of it, there are people who are overlooked by the Martians and end up in the oddest locations, seemingly okay. So, that part didn't bother me. To me, the biggest plot hole was why the fuck were their fighting machines buried "millions of years ago" and now they transport in? wtf?

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

That's a good one by theboz (4.00 / 1) #25 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 11:57:47 PM EST
I thought that part was dumb as well, although I forgot about that part.
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That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]

That's another one by yicky yacky (2.00 / 0) #26 Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 05:04:23 AM EST

The only real way of retrospectively justifying that is to speculate that the aliens were waiting for sufficient red-blood-celled life to have developed for their purposes before making their move — again, this inference has the clumsy implication that they knew in advance that it would happen eventually and were waiting it out. We don't know for sure that they've been there millions of years, only that one character speculates they may have been; it could have been ten or twenty thousand, for example. The problem with this idea is that, for every human which gets "harvested", about twenty or thirty just get vapourized indiscriminately, so they can't have been that worried about it. You can conjure up retroactive explanations for this, too, but it just goes to highlight how many off-screen logical contortions must be gone through to make it add up. The other issue there is that some of the ships were buried under intersections and buildings — places which must have been surveyed fairly extensively at the time of construction. It's really got quite a few holes.


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[ Parent ]

I'd be up for fantasy football... by Metatone (4.00 / 1) #15 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 12:09:09 PM EST
although:

a) I'm useless at it, always have been.
b) I sorta-kinda fear the spam at the EPL site..



I know what you mean by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #17 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 12:43:43 PM EST

Nasty business. I'll take a look later on with a spare spam account and see what they need; maybe have a look at other options as well.

It's interesting that many of them have shut down (Yahoo was apparently running one until last year), and it can't have been for lack of popularity; the last time I entered the BBC one was five years ago, and half a million people had signed up. I wonder whether the PL have been throwing their legalistic weight around.

Don't worry. I'm crap at them, too -- always seem to swap strikers two days before the one I dropped scores a hat-trick and the goal-demon I switched-to dries up.


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[ Parent ]

Yeah, GuardianUnlimited... by Metatone (4.00 / 1) #21 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 01:19:57 PM EST
seem to have plumped for a "score predictor" game instead, with claims that simpler is better.

I don't know about that, but the transfer system can be an issue. The last fantasy league I did, the winners spent an absurd amount of time fine tuning their squad every day (player prices reflected some playing and buying variables) and I jsut didn't have time for that.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I'm up for it, so long as the identity theft potential isn't too high.

[ Parent ]

Isn't that by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #22 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 01:56:21 PM EST

called "The Pools"? ;)

I didn't realise they were doing a free game; they normally stick with their pay-to-play managerial one. Might be worth considering if all else fails.

The Beeb used to place strict limits on the number of transfers (6 a month, IIRC) so you couldn't get too intricate, although those who did seemed to win; I just twiddled them once a month.


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[ Parent ]

I didn't realize by ad hoc (4.00 / 2) #16 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 12:25:08 PM EST
Ray Charles was a superhero.
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Possible by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #18 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 12:44:35 PM EST

new Daredevil franchise.


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[ Parent ]

finally! by R343L (4.00 / 1) #23 Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:24:47 PM EST
Someone else who kind of liked Spielberg's War of the Worlds. But I've loved WotW in all it's forms for years (read the original novel in junior high). I've been known to check out from the library regional recordings "re-doing" the Orson Welles presentation localized for a particular city area / state.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot


Set up a husi league by Dr H0ffm4n (4.00 / 1) #27 Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:53:58 PM EST
and post the code to the hole. I'll join.